Good discussion for a Monday.
It’s clear to see the tiling industry is at its worst it’s been for a long long time..
Maybe ever for some of us.
Retail is terrible and unfortunately we’re going to see a fair few tile retailers go this year. Last year we saw some go.
Plastic panels and Lvt have been trending a while now and really hitting the tile market.
That does eventually have a knock on effect on tile fixers as the market becomes more competitive fighting for jobs.
I’m going to create a post we can share with the retail sector to try and promote the use of tiles over alternatives.
Give me your pros and cons on
Lvt
Plastic panels
Tiles
Biggest complaint of not using tiles is dirty grout joints and being cold.
Do we need to use more epoxy grout to help ourselves, do we need to show true running costs of ufh?
Be interested in your feedback
If tiles aren’t selling, us fitting them isn’t needed.
This wood effect floor on the left will far outlast lvt.
Without the worries of scratching, uv damage etc
We are working on bringing some lvt training so that members can diversify and fulfil more work days.
But some feedback would be great so we can do some informative posts and try and defend our industry and improve it from a retailers view.
Mark says:
If tiles aren’t selling, us fitting them isn’t needed.
This wood effect floor on the left will far outlast lvt.
Without the worries of scratching, uv damage etc
We are working on bringing some lvt training so that members can diversify and fulfil more work days.
But some feedback would be great so we can do some informative posts and try and defend our industry and improve it from a retailers view.
Darren says:
I think theres two main issues. Firstly, wall cladding etc has absolutely surpassed tiles in a lot of bathroom showrooms. I'd say retail DIY customers are pretty much the exception, so tiles aren't even being mentioned to the vast majority of people having new bathrooms put in. There's plenty of these showrooms advertising full bathrooms for ridiculously cheap prices, and the only way to do that is to cut down on labour and material costs. They've done this by cutting out tiling.
Secondly, too many purely online retailers selling with no knowledge or expertise at rock bottom margins. Customers buy from them based on price without realising anything about quality of product. It's too expensive to return, so they just make it work, with tilers who just have to crack on and do what they can with poor quality products.
Grout maintenance etc is what we hear on a weekly basis. Tanking kits etc massively help this, but problem then comes down to fitting cost. If building regs were updated to require taking in all wet areas regardless of final finish, then you'd gradually start to see tiling come back, as the choice is much greater.
Lewis says:
Speaking as a former tile fixer and through my industry experience regardless of my employer, I genuinely don’t believe we help ourselves as an industry. We constantly discuss the cheaper ways to do things, the cost/price of our services and product etc rather than educate the clients as to why we need to use certain items or install the things needed to ensure we don’t have problems.
Take repeated black mould for example in wet areas (Aspergillus Niger), how many of us don’t install tanking because of cost and yet wonder why our clients choose to avoid tiling on their next refurb? In the main black mould is attributable to the organic material contained within certain backgrounds such as timber stud and plaster board, degrading and decomposing. Easily preventable with a waterproofing system.
How many of us use cheaper adhesive products with slow/inconsistent set times and wonder why grout is discolouring when we grout the next morning (which certainly isn’t the 24hrs needed with most slow sets).
How many of us use ready mixed materials for convenience yet fail to understand why certain tile formats fail to bond or again have grout discolouration issues.
How many of us don’t understand moisture control and acceptable moisture levels for tiling?
How many of us feel we need to use certain products such as uncoupling membranes externally which aren’t necessarily contributing anything to a project other than needless additional expense, but with increased risk of failure, due to water entrapment yet these same installers won’t pay for a quality adhesive and grout solutions which may even add to the system performance?
Many of the issues we see within our team (who handle the site work) are down to cutting corners/time/cost), many of which are avoidable.
The list above are only a few things I could mention and I could go on and on I’m afraid. If we don’t stand together as an industry, all singing from the same hymn sheet in an attempt to raise standards, rather than continue driving down our own service and price, then sadly the industry will suffer long term as a result.
The quality of tile installations will be inconsistent, they will have less life expectancy, and quality of materials including adhesive, ancillaries and tiles will naturally go down as a result of the drive towards lower price, and so the viscous circle begins.
Quality, price, service it all goes hand in hand I’m afraid and running down our own cost to remain competitive as an industry will only end one way, and this is not the way, in my opinion.
What's your view?
It’s clear to see the tiling industry is at its worst it’s been for a long long time..
Maybe ever for some of us.
Retail is terrible and unfortunately we’re going to see a fair few tile retailers go this year. Last year we saw some go.
Plastic panels and Lvt have been trending a while now and really hitting the tile market.
That does eventually have a knock on effect on tile fixers as the market becomes more competitive fighting for jobs.
I’m going to create a post we can share with the retail sector to try and promote the use of tiles over alternatives.
Give me your pros and cons on
Lvt
Plastic panels
Tiles
Biggest complaint of not using tiles is dirty grout joints and being cold.
Do we need to use more epoxy grout to help ourselves, do we need to show true running costs of ufh?
Be interested in your feedback
If tiles aren’t selling, us fitting them isn’t needed.
This wood effect floor on the left will far outlast lvt.
Without the worries of scratching, uv damage etc
We are working on bringing some lvt training so that members can diversify and fulfil more work days.
But some feedback would be great so we can do some informative posts and try and defend our industry and improve it from a retailers view.
Mark says:
If tiles aren’t selling, us fitting them isn’t needed.
This wood effect floor on the left will far outlast lvt.
Without the worries of scratching, uv damage etc
We are working on bringing some lvt training so that members can diversify and fulfil more work days.
But some feedback would be great so we can do some informative posts and try and defend our industry and improve it from a retailers view.
Darren says:
I think theres two main issues. Firstly, wall cladding etc has absolutely surpassed tiles in a lot of bathroom showrooms. I'd say retail DIY customers are pretty much the exception, so tiles aren't even being mentioned to the vast majority of people having new bathrooms put in. There's plenty of these showrooms advertising full bathrooms for ridiculously cheap prices, and the only way to do that is to cut down on labour and material costs. They've done this by cutting out tiling.
Secondly, too many purely online retailers selling with no knowledge or expertise at rock bottom margins. Customers buy from them based on price without realising anything about quality of product. It's too expensive to return, so they just make it work, with tilers who just have to crack on and do what they can with poor quality products.
Grout maintenance etc is what we hear on a weekly basis. Tanking kits etc massively help this, but problem then comes down to fitting cost. If building regs were updated to require taking in all wet areas regardless of final finish, then you'd gradually start to see tiling come back, as the choice is much greater.
Lewis says:
Speaking as a former tile fixer and through my industry experience regardless of my employer, I genuinely don’t believe we help ourselves as an industry. We constantly discuss the cheaper ways to do things, the cost/price of our services and product etc rather than educate the clients as to why we need to use certain items or install the things needed to ensure we don’t have problems.
Take repeated black mould for example in wet areas (Aspergillus Niger), how many of us don’t install tanking because of cost and yet wonder why our clients choose to avoid tiling on their next refurb? In the main black mould is attributable to the organic material contained within certain backgrounds such as timber stud and plaster board, degrading and decomposing. Easily preventable with a waterproofing system.
How many of us use cheaper adhesive products with slow/inconsistent set times and wonder why grout is discolouring when we grout the next morning (which certainly isn’t the 24hrs needed with most slow sets).
How many of us use ready mixed materials for convenience yet fail to understand why certain tile formats fail to bond or again have grout discolouration issues.
How many of us don’t understand moisture control and acceptable moisture levels for tiling?
How many of us feel we need to use certain products such as uncoupling membranes externally which aren’t necessarily contributing anything to a project other than needless additional expense, but with increased risk of failure, due to water entrapment yet these same installers won’t pay for a quality adhesive and grout solutions which may even add to the system performance?
Many of the issues we see within our team (who handle the site work) are down to cutting corners/time/cost), many of which are avoidable.
The list above are only a few things I could mention and I could go on and on I’m afraid. If we don’t stand together as an industry, all singing from the same hymn sheet in an attempt to raise standards, rather than continue driving down our own service and price, then sadly the industry will suffer long term as a result.
The quality of tile installations will be inconsistent, they will have less life expectancy, and quality of materials including adhesive, ancillaries and tiles will naturally go down as a result of the drive towards lower price, and so the viscous circle begins.
Quality, price, service it all goes hand in hand I’m afraid and running down our own cost to remain competitive as an industry will only end one way, and this is not the way, in my opinion.
What's your view?
